Posts by just n from bethel

51

In 25 Years Will The WT.Organization Still Be Around?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i think so.

and i doubt it'll grow much, if at all, but i think it will still be around.. what do you think?.

just n from bethel

I've seen the future for the watchtower, here is what it looks like:

25 years from now at the annual one day combined district/circuit convention, You can expect a talk to say something like this:

Brothers and Sisters, we are deep deep deep deep deep into the time of the end! Do not quit the race now! Jehovah has given us so many provisions these last few years. The simplified meeting arrangement where we meet one Sunday a month for 30 minutes. This provision has helped the friends free up time to take care of their many aged relatives.

One 90 year old sister wrote the following: "When I heard we were going from two meetings a month to one I started crying tears of joy. It goes to show how Jah is using the FDS to help the millions of Witnesses facing serious old age issues that we never expected. Thank you Jehovah. Thank you GB."

Yes friends, we have had four hours of amazing spiritual refreshment today - all right here at our annual special district circuit convention. There was a time many years ago when these were several days long, multiple times a year. Thankfully Jehovah's organization has kept up with the needs of the many friends who have suffered from ADD for quite some time. It used to be that we had to listen to many 20, 30, even 60 minute discourses over the course of several days. But today - we have heard 30 different talks -none longer than 5 minutes each.

Also, are we not grateful that all these talks were delivered via video conference directly from the world hq? In many parts of the world there are a lack of speakers, well actually, there is a lack of brothers in general who are qualified and in good enough health to give talks. This provision to video conference all the convention talks, has been a huge blessing, has it not?

Finally - Isn't it great that we were able to relocate world hq to Geneva. The worldly authorities have come down hard in their taxes on religions and they just don't see us as the philanthropic charity that we are - Oh how Satan blinds them. Thankfully, Jehovah directed us to shift our headquarters to a country more favorable to Witnesses and the God-given right to be free from oppressive taxes. Truly the FDS takes care of Jehovah's assets.

Well - it wouldn't be a convention without a new release. But the GB has arranged something very special for everyone - not one new release but two. The first is a new 8 page digital brochure: Revelation, Daniel, and Ezekiel - Prophesies in Action Today! You will find these simple and easy to act out in your weekly family drama night.

The next release is a video. Over the years many opposers have claimed we've done little to promote taking care of aged widows and orphans. This video will prove that claim fruitless as it takes 20 minutes to highlight all our facilities around the world that have been converted to retirement centers for JWs and orphanages for displaced disaster survivors who want to become a JW. (pause for applause)

Now as we've been doing for the last 7 years, the brochure will be available to download and print at home at your own cost. No releases are distributed at conventions any longer to help you dear friends save on resources in these hard times. The video is being hosted on our secure streaming video servers and can be accessed with a password that the elders will be provided. It's important to remember, that we want only active JWs to have access to these videos. Thank you for your cooperation in these matters.

Now, if you will, please, stand and lets sing a song from our new song book released just last year. The song that has been selected is the last song in the book, that hopefully you've memorized, and that would be song # 3, Praise Jehovah's Slave Class!

51

In 25 Years Will The WT.Organization Still Be Around?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i think so.

and i doubt it'll grow much, if at all, but i think it will still be around.. what do you think?.

just n from bethel

Love the 1984 quotes:

"We are not content with negative obedience, nor even with the most abject submission. When finally you surrender to us, it must be of your own free will. We do not destroy the heretic because he resists us; so long as he resists us we never destroy him. We convert him, we capture his inner mind, we reshape him. We burn all evil and all illusion out of him; we bring him over to our side, not in appearance, but genuinely, heart and soul. We make him one of ourselves before we kill him. It is intolerable to us that an erroneous thought should exist anywhere in the world, however secret and powerless it may be. Even in the instance of death we cannot permit any deviation . . . we make the brain perfect before we blow it out."

There's an interesting conflict going on when trying to look out at the WT a few decades from now. On the one hand, you have an organization that thrives on its power and self proclaimed authority. And as has been pointed out - a lot of people love that authoritarian (cultish) environment - they need it. Let me give you an example. I have a relative that became dismayed when the blood policy started changing to allow certain fractions and cell saver etc. She didn't like that she would have to think it out and use her conscience - she asked 'Why don't they just tell us what is and is not ok to take?' Yep -there are people who don't want to think, and sad to say it may very well include ones we love.

Therefore, the Watchtower will probably continue to thrive. I've seen the current young ones at Bethel bask in the authority they get. Someday, they'll be a 'given one' or a GB member. I remember when I was at bethel a young job overseer, only a few years older than me, gave me a warning lecture as part of my training. The whole theme was on Korah rejecting God's appointed men and basically, how it applied to him and my other overseers. i.e. he was telling me that to question him and other bethel work overseers was the same as Korah rejecting Moses. This guy was like 24. Go out 25 years from now, and he will be in his 60s - if still at bethel - will be part of the new GB 3.0.

Now on the other hand. I know very few people of the younger generation of Witnesses (those few that are actually still in) who study, much less think very deeply. Even the elders, very few people I know could explain any difficult teaching using just the Bible. They are in it for the social experience, and the power. But 25 years from now, you're going to have a severe old age crisis on your hands. The org will have 70% 60+ maybe even 65+ 70+ years old and more. Very few of their children will be in the org. If the org thinks there is a severe crisis of lack of young people today - just wait 25 years from now.

Instead of printeries and educational centers, Patterson and WT Farms will be converted into retirement / nursing centers. Same with assembly halls and other properties. Of course, there will be few JWs that will have proper educational training in the medical field, so they'll have to adjust their stance on education so they can get JWs qualified to work at these centers.

So Watchtower will likely be around - but it certainly won't be like it is today. Just remember - the growth phase JWs experienced in the 80s, even in industrial/western nations - those days are gone. Now the only growth is from developing lands and immigrants in the developed nations. As these immigrants and developing nations get more and more access to education and open information, the growth will slow. Look at Japan.

The best the watchtower could hope for would be for something to happen in the middle east, like all the sudden muslim countries start allowing freedom of religion and open missionaries. If something like that happened, the Witnesses would be the first to pounce and of course you'd see growth there, etc.

Doctrinally, I think the 144,000 will be forced to change. Just too many partakers - and in 25 years, with the # of partakers growing at the current rate - it'll be between 30,000 and 50,000 - or at the very least it won't have dropped much at all despite all the annointed today being dead in 25 years.

Communism will probably be limited to N Korea, if even them. China, Russia, and so forth, even the UN will look really different. NATO, WTO, and other organizations will probably have been completely rearranged. What this means for JWs ... two new Revelation books. The problem, though - who will write them? None of today's generation even had a clue or even care about the Prophecy books. Every single JW of this generation dreaded studying these books. 25 years from now, will a new JW visionary emerge from the twitter generation of JWs? Will a 21st century Fred Franz be discovered from among the few remaining 20 and 30 year-old JWs today?

Finally there will still be the bi-polar WT articles - you know one month telling the JWs, especially the older ones how much they are loved and should be appreciated and taken care of for all their faithful years of service. And how the most important thing JWs should be doing are acts of love, which of course will still include the ministry. Then, the next month - will be an article berating the JWs who got carried away with determining the length of of a generation and trying to worry about who it overlaps with and that they should never have been in such a hurry to play with words. Anyone that was disappointed because of the end not coming within the overlapping generation was just jumping ahead and should never have placed such an emphasis on time frames - this was never the governing body's intentions and anybody that made an issue over it has nobody to blame but themselves for disappointment.

3

Reply to ELPIRO

by bobld in

jw
friends

i wanted to reply on his post but i can't so here is my reply.. face reality elpiro.as long as there are despicable persons like hilter,stalin,etc.. we need a well equipt army to defeat scum like that.i am very thankful for the brave soldiers who did just that.. otherwise elpiro you and i would not have the freedom we do today.your 100 plus years of preaching has not brought that freedom.we need to face reality that we still have dictators today and that we need the army.. elpiro did you know that stalin said "religion needed to be removed under communist society"and that the orthodox church suffered greatly.tens of thousands of priests,monks and nuns were persecuted and killed,over 100,000 were shot during the purge.. elpiro are you not happy that the usa won the cold war.elpiro do you think they would of won the cold war w/o an army.are you not happy for the freedom that the russians have today.just think even your religion can now fight them in the courts today.do you think they could under communist rule?.

b.

just n from bethel

Yes - a big thank you to governments that promote freedom of thought - but get ready to move over for one that says if you think anything different than what this new gov't tells you - prepare to die.

My name is ElPIRO, I'm your future leader and judge from heaven, please heed my warning now, because if you don't, once I'm in heaven, I'm going to kill you, your wife, and children. I will kill you and your children because you did not acknowledge my authority while I was on earth. Even though I spelled like a f@#$ing dickhead, you should have listened to me. It does not matter that I disregard my fellow annointed brothers' authority and disobey their directives forbidding us from coming here and debating and associating with disfellowshipped apostates. I will be with them shortly in heaven, and I will reign down a godly f@#$ing fire on all your little babies and children. I will massacre them! So having said that, I hope you sumbit now to the kingdom by bowing down to the watchtower and doing whatever they tell you (except coming here to talk to disfellowshipped apostates - that's okay to disobey so long as you come here and tell everybody they're going to die along with their children for not being a JW - but everything else the Watchtower says - obey it). Yep obey the watchtower and your elders, and especially me. Do it now. (But actually, I kind of hope you ignore this, cause I really want to kill you when I get to heaven - YAAAAYYYY Heavenly genocide - hear I come!!!!!)

50

Child Abuse At The Meetings

by Hairyhegoat in

please read and i will tell you now this was it was like for me !.

kingdom halls are a hellish memory for me.

i grew up as a jehovah's witness from the age of 9 until i fought my way to freedom at age 18. i recall children as young as a year old being beaten repeatedly for not sitting still during services...some sessions, called assemblies, were 6 hours long and lasted for 3-5 days in succession.. my nephew was one of many who felt the literal sting of the watchtower's stance of "spare the rod, spoil the child.

just n from bethel

These kids parents simply think they're teaching their kids about God and Christ as well, is it abusive?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LACyLTsH4ac

9

129 million Americans have preexisting health conditions

by designs in

if you have a medical insurance policy chances are you can't switch to another provider or can't get coverage period.

when your insurance provider raises premiums this year 30%-60% and you have reached the highest level of deductible what are your plans to address your family's medical needs.. in the national debate of health care what solutions do you see as practical.

how can the current federal policy be ratified or improved over time to address this national crisis..

just n from bethel

First of all - of those 129 million americans - how many of those work for a company where they don't have a desire to change insurance in any case. Or perhaps their plans offer cafeteria plans and they certainly could change? If they change jobs and go to another group plan - no big deal. Also Hippa does allow people to change plans even with pre-existing.

Your facts are so far off I had to weigh in. Where do you get your information? Can't believe this matter bugged me enough to actually post on topics I never post on.

Finally - most states have addressed this problem for years - "high risk pools". I think the states that don't have this should probably consider it. Yes the plans are more expensive - but that is the whole idea of risk management - Why should my healthy family with no pre-existing be penalized for others' health problems. Many of those health problems are related to American epidemic of obesity - I don't think I should have to pay higher rates to compensate for somebody that eats like crap, doesn't work out, and gets diabetes. Then they complain that the high risk pools are too expensive. I say stop eating fast food and quit smoking, get on a budget, and decide what's important to you.

I have an impeccable driving record. I get great insurance rates for my cars. Should I also have to pay for somebody that has multiple DUIs and several speeding tickets and accidents. They indeed have pre-existing conditions in driving and will often have difficulty finding an insurance company to cover them. But there are some plans out there - and yes they're expensive - but if they want it or need it - they'll be able to get it - thanks to the marketplace.

The lack of education in risk management here is appalling. It appears there are at least a few people here that have taken math classes.

OK - sorry for my rant. I'm in a mood.

42

In your hall, how many converted to a JW from door to door in the last 10 years?

by just n from bethel in

in mine that would be a big fat zero.. there have been a handful of teenage baptisms of jw children.. one that really was a foreign language group transfer.. but in the last ten years - there has not been one single convert from the d2d ministry.. btw - my congregation has had over 10 pioneers (real ones that actually do d2d, including elders) for the last decade.. not one.

10 x 70 hours a month x 120 months = 84,000 hours ... results = 0.. also most of our pioneers are pretty good at the door - some half way decent teachers.

one is sub co and another often is called to teach ... wait for it ... pioneer school!!!.

just n from bethel

2 more with zero

one more with 2

This is for all those who spent countless hours in the D2D work, here's what we were really doing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oudNoKfNUfs&feature=related

11

Remember the Convicted Pedophile Who Sued to Attend KH Meetings?

by jamiebowers in

well, he was recently busted for child pornography.

wonder what his congregation thinks now...especially the ones who testified on his behalf?!.

http://www.silentlambs.org/perfettobustedagain.htm.

just n from bethel

Doubtfully yours is hilarious - in one thread she says child abusers should be kicked out - in another thread she says parents should smack their kids right at the kingdom hall.???

DY, Maybe the abuser in your hall read your first thread about how good it is to beat kids at the hall and perhaps he got the wrong message. You really need to be a little more consistent in your thinking - oh wait you can't, because JWs are not allowed to think logically. Well - good luck in life - sounds like whatever it is you're looking for in life just isn't happening at the kingdom hall or elsewhere. You've been here for 7+ years, but yet your mind is still imprisoned - fear of JW thoughtcrime. How sad.

But always a good reminder for me to observe how JWs still can't think straight. For that, we thank you.

50

Child Abuse At The Meetings

by Hairyhegoat in

please read and i will tell you now this was it was like for me !.

kingdom halls are a hellish memory for me.

i grew up as a jehovah's witness from the age of 9 until i fought my way to freedom at age 18. i recall children as young as a year old being beaten repeatedly for not sitting still during services...some sessions, called assemblies, were 6 hours long and lasted for 3-5 days in succession.. my nephew was one of many who felt the literal sting of the watchtower's stance of "spare the rod, spoil the child.

just n from bethel

TEC said:

Do you still believe that I am (or people like me are) abusing my children by teaching them to believe in God and Christ?

Not that I can answer for cofty, but my response is: no more abusive than teaching children to believe in Santa Claus. But hey - even if you keep telling them mythical figures are real, all into their young adult life, hopefully such ideas will not retard their educational foundation. But hey, some adults still believe in Santa - so who knows:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCoOcBv01aA

42

In your hall, how many converted to a JW from door to door in the last 10 years?

by just n from bethel in

in mine that would be a big fat zero.. there have been a handful of teenage baptisms of jw children.. one that really was a foreign language group transfer.. but in the last ten years - there has not been one single convert from the d2d ministry.. btw - my congregation has had over 10 pioneers (real ones that actually do d2d, including elders) for the last decade.. not one.

10 x 70 hours a month x 120 months = 84,000 hours ... results = 0.. also most of our pioneers are pretty good at the door - some half way decent teachers.

one is sub co and another often is called to teach ... wait for it ... pioneer school!!!.

just n from bethel

So that's at least seven congregations with ZERO D2D converts

four with just 1

two with 3

one with 2

and another with 15* - would still like to confirm with Dagoth if that's an English/Western country congo.

How many hours were logged in those congregations in the ten plus years???

50

Child Abuse At The Meetings

by Hairyhegoat in

please read and i will tell you now this was it was like for me !.

kingdom halls are a hellish memory for me.

i grew up as a jehovah's witness from the age of 9 until i fought my way to freedom at age 18. i recall children as young as a year old being beaten repeatedly for not sitting still during services...some sessions, called assemblies, were 6 hours long and lasted for 3-5 days in succession.. my nephew was one of many who felt the literal sting of the watchtower's stance of "spare the rod, spoil the child.

just n from bethel

Hey doubtfully, a lot of folks here have called you out. Care to share your valuable insights via some response - or were you taught to only respond to the infliction of physical pain?